Introduction to Incubators and Accelerators

Tom Leonard 

I'm Tom Leonard. I'm the host of the Gamers Change Lives podcast where we talk about how eSports can create jobs all over the world. Play games, create jobs, change lives. In season one, we talked about jobs. In season two, we talked about Follow The Money. In season three, we talked about business basics. And now in season four, we're calling it accelerating eSports success. We're talking to people around the world, telling the stories of how entrepreneurs can tap into resources provided by accelerators, incubators, and other platforms to hone their business skills. The goal of our conversations is to provide inspiration to e-sports entrepreneurs, both new and established, to seek tools, training, mentorship, networking, and more through established platforms. Today, this is gonna be a fun episode. We have two returning guests. We have Reginald Nsowah, who, of course, everyone here on the podcast already knows as the executive producer and he's the one that makes everything happen here. And Cholwe Shabukali, she is the co-founder and managing director of Team Gematrix and a lot more. Welcome to you both.

Cholwe 

Thank you. Hi, Tom.

Tom Leonard 

Hey there.

Reggie 

Yeah, hi, hello. Yeah, thank you for having me.

Tom Leonard 

So Cholwe, where are you speaking to us from?

Cholwe 

Thank you. I'm speaking to you from Lusaka, Zambia.

Tom Leonard 

Great. And in Reginald?

Reggie 

Yeah, so I'm in a small city called Shenyang in China, Mainland China.

Tom Leonard 

OK, so we are and I'm here in California. We are all over the world here. And today, what we wanted to do is just kind of an introduction to what are incubators, what are accelerators, because both of you have industry experience in these fields. So let's start with you, Reginald. What is an incubator?

Reggie 

Yeah, so maybe from the definition of an incubator, it's a place where ideas or business ideas are developed into full companies, or with the hope of them surviving and becoming a full business. So there are different types, different configurations, different, you know, directions and of how they are constituted. But I think basically an incubator is a place where an entrepreneur, sometimes you don't even have to be an entrepreneur, goes in there and then goes through some level of training to develop you know, his business a lot of times they are mentors available. Yeah, depending on, depending on design. So, yeah. And the goal is that for the business to receive or the for the idea to receive support and for it to become, you know, before it goes out into the real world. Yeah.

Tom Leonard 

So what you're seeing there is the incubators are sometimes just people with ideas, not with companies, that you can just have an idea and you can participate in an incubator.

Reggie 

Yes, yes, yes. And I think, yeah. So basically, that's how it works. But there's been a lot of innovations that has been going on too with incubators. Now there are some incubators that you can just go there as a co-founder. So you are the one without an idea. Sometimes you can have an idea, but without a team. And you can get into the incubator. And then you can recruit. Or sometimes you can you can have someone join you with a co-founder depending on the skills that you want. So there are different, innovation and developments in this space. But basically a lot of times maybe two people go there or one person goes there with an idea, hoping to turn it into a business. And then you go there and the idea is evaluated or developed. So it becomes a you know, an MVP most of the times to get, you know, for you to get to your MVP, uh, your minimum viable product or to become a full business. And the duration of the incubation sometimes can be as quick as, um, six weeks or sometimes it can be a year or more. Yeah.

Tom Leonard 

Yes. Yep. So Cholwe, in your experience, if someone asks you, what is an incubator? What would you say?

Cholwe 

My definition is similar to Reginald's because an incubator is a place where a start-up co-founder would go to really prune the idea or add more value to the concept of their business. And when they come out of it, they come out with it, out of the incubator with more value, a polished business model and better strategy on how to execute their business or idea in the real world after engaging with mentors, resources around business, and exposure to maybe investors or opportunities that would help make the idea of business better after the duration.

Tom Leonard 

So how much experience does someone have to have before they can join an incubator?

Cholwe 

Sometimes all you need is just to have an idea. There are some incubators that really have a calling because when you apply, they state what they need from a co-founder or a founder. So they could say, okay, we need someone with a business idea, early stage business idea, or we need the founders to apply who have a business that has been running for two years or maybe a year or three years. And then you go through a length of incubation, maybe six to 12 months. So it just depends on what criteria the actual incubator is looking for at that particular time or the particular project that they're targeting to reach. So it depends.

Tom Leonard 

Yeah, staying with you, Cholwe, can you describe maybe in a little more detail what it is that an entrepreneur can get from an incubator? Because you're describing a few things there. Maybe the best way is, can you talk a little bit about your experience of working with incubators and what it is that you got out of their programs?

Cholwe 

Oh yeah. When I worked with an incubator called Bongo Hive here in Lusaka, one of the most important things and value that I got was really learning more about business models and how to execute business models at a market stage. So I really got to know more about that and really understand how to run a business from the grassroots. And the other value that I got was networking, because initially when starting my business, I thought, okay, I'll just do this on my own and I'll just make it through. But one thing I learned, valuable information I learned was you shouldn't be too ashamed to ask for help. And from that point, I learned more about networking and really increasing the value of my network, because your network is your network. That's so true. I can't even stress that enough. But through Bongo Hive, I was able to meet my current second business partner and other people within the Zambian business space that have really helped me grow as both an entrepreneur. So being part of an incubator is very valuable if you have access to one locally within your network because you really learn so much when it comes down to your business. You learn how to compact, how to categorize your business. So you know you have your financial side, you have your marketing side, you have your strategy side. You very much learn how to structure your business and how to execute it from more angles and get ready for the markets. So it basically makes you ready for market approach. So that's the most value that you get from an incubator.

Tom Leonard

I think all kinds of great things that you're saying there. I think one of the things that we find in talking to a lot of eSports people is that they come from gamers. They're gamers and then they decide that they want to do something. I want to do this for a business. I want to play games for a business sort of thing. And they're really good at the gaming side of things and maybe they don't have the business background and so there are resources out there. Reginald, how about for you? What's been your experience with Accelerator, with incubators? What do people get out of them? What should people expect to get out of them, let's say?

Reggie 

Yeah. Okay. So for me, my experience was maybe a little bit different from Cholwe, because I jumped into an incubator after school, after university, because I, together with my roommate, we had already decided that we were going to start a company. So our university started an incubator. I mean, it's something that has become very, very common with universities, also trying to invest and build companies. So for us, we did not really have the, the first benefit that we gained was the mindset shift of starting a business, being a founder, what it means, how the real world is and how difficult the terrain is. And you are not going to be like your colleague, engineering and classmates who, let's say, got a job at a telecommunications company or I did aerospace or maybe you got a job at the airline or the Air Force, right, they would have a guaranteed source of income, whilst you are still looking for your first customer. So the incubator, you know, the first thing was the mindset shift. And our professors, you know, obviously, some of them could not give us that mindset. So they always used to invite alumni who had gone into entrepreneurship to come and talk to us, sort of preface up, to talk to us about what really matters, what you should really chase, you know, what growth means and it points you out in a direction and then it makes you focus on the main things because when you are starting, surely when you are bootstrapping and there are certain things that you should focus on, you should focus more on customers, sometimes you know it might be difficult to get an investor or to get someone to believe in you. So the incubator gives you the realities of the ground, which is very, very important and what to focus on. So that's what we gained. And then also we also gained from the ecosystem because the incubator that we joined, their goal was to target 20 businesses and see the ones that can survive or the ones that can grow. So we were in the incubator with other founders.

Reggie 

And I think after some time, we realized that some people were quitting. So because some of them had job offers, some of them realized that, you know, after they pitched their idea and they went through, they realized that, hmm, this idea that I had in my university dormitory, it is not maybe. And that was way back in 2013. Um, tech and IT adoptions was, you know, and actually the city where I was, it wasn't the capital. So sometimes you realize that your product is good, your business is good, but it is not, there is no market fit. I think one of the big things that they taught us, product market fit. There was, the market wasn't, either the market wasn't ready for that or the supporting businesses were not available. So some people moved to other cities to go on and start their business. Some also realized that maybe it's not time for me to be a founder. Some to, you know the talent. And for example, we had a guy who was into, who wanted to start a computer animations and graphics company. And in the incubator, we were fortunate to receive laptops, but he needed a higher, a big spec, you know, a more expensive machine for his rendering and all that. So he realized that even before he had to start serving customers, he needed to get some equipment. So there's a lot of, you know, good things about incubators. So it depends. I mean, if you find yourself in an incubator that provides seed funding all the way, that is great. Some too, you know, yeah, but I think no matter what they provide, you would definitely, there's still going to be a lot of benefit for the founder, for, you know, or for you going to an incubator.

Tom Leonard 

One of the things I hear you talking about, which I found really to be true at business school, was that you learn from the program, but you learn maybe more, or just as much from the other students. And I'm sure that in an incubator, you're getting the program, but also just be able to connect with other founders at all different levels has to be valuable. Reginald, staying with you, where do people, so let's say someone says, hey, I want to investigate this. I want to know more.

Reggie 

Yeah.

Tom Leonard 

Where can people start searching for incubators out there? Is that, is it starting on Google? Are there other places?

Reggie 

Yeah, I think Google is a very, very good place to start. I think that with the incubators, like we have basically maybe, let me say, two or three types. We have the local ones. For example, for a lot of developing countries, especially in Africa and maybe in Asia, that is hit with a lot of youth unemployment, entrepreneurship is seen as a solution, which I also believe in it. So you have a lot of governments that are partnering with hubs and incubators to encourage or to support my entrepreneurs. So locally, there's a lot of information going around. So you can contact your local youth ministry or most countries now have entrepreneurial agencies at the local government and at the national government level. We also have regional incubators. Some of them are specific in the type of business that they want. Like for example, we have ones that are interested only in environment or sustainable businesses. We have incubators for only, let's say marine. We have incubators for creatives, you know, podcasters, designers, you know, all those kind of things. And then we also have some that are for wastes, which is becoming more popular these days. That's recycling, circular economy and all that. So you have those ones coming in. You have a lot of international development agencies. Like for example, UNICEF has an incubator in Ghana. It's called the UNICEF Startup Lab. So you can start looking in places like that. And then we have the international incubators like Y-Combinator, you have Startup 500. You know, those ones are the global ones that have like founders institutes, FI, I think coming from California. They pick startups all over the world. They have regional chapters that you can apply and then you can participate virtually, but most of them would have different requirements. Most of them will have different requirements. So I think, and then you can also check on my favorite social media platform, LinkedIn. I think that you can always, when you start looking for the words, the keywords are haps, incubators, maybe accelerators.

Reggie 

So you can find them all over the place. They are very easy to find. Or you can reach out to anyone in the startup world who identifies himself as an angel investor or a startup mentor or a co-founder. I think when you ask two or three of them who are in the ecosystem, they will definitely point you out to the right direction.

Tom Leonard

That's great. That's great. Cholwe, how about for you? What would you recommend people do for searching for and finding incubators out there?

Tom Leonard 

What would you say is the best advice for someone to get accepted to a program? Because some of the programs are super competitive. Others are, uh, may not be, but are there any secrets to getting selected?

Tom Leonard 

One of the things I hear you saying is, which I think is really true, it's like if you're going to be, make sure that you have time to participate fully in the program because otherwise you're not doing yourself any favors if you're not able to do that. Rachel, can you talk a little bit about alumni from these organizations? First can you talk about what it's like if you've gone through an organization? What happens afterwards? What kind of networking opportunities do you find?

Reggie 

Yeah, well, after the program, first of all, they always try and keep contact with you. Because when you come out from the incubator or from the program, it's like they give birth to you in a particular way. So they're always interested in your progress. 

Tom Leonard 

Could you repeat that?

Reggie 

It's like they gave birth to you. And because the, you know, it's always about the reputation. When a company succeeds, everybody wants to be part of the success story. Like we say in Africa, you know, success has many friends, failure is isolated. So yeah, it's an orphan. Yeah, yeah, failure is an orphan. So they always try to keep tabs on you. I remember that the accelerator that, the incubator that we went through, they always used to tell the communications and the program director that, keep calling these guys, try and invite them to talk to the students. And especially when it comes to fundraising, because sometimes setting fund and opportunities and partners come to these incubators and accelerators and they might be looking for a startup in the area where you are. So as soon as that happens, you will be the first person that they will reach out to. So it's always important that you are in their network. Sometimes you have to even, you know, let them know what you are about. Maybe with the new markets that you are entering or the progress that you've made and they can help you. With the incubator that I went through up till now, they keep organizing sometimes webinars when they have someone, you know, very, very important, let's say in the country, they organize these mixes and networking events that they do send invitations. Sometimes there are also some government policy changes and some things that could be of benefit or some information that will be important to you that they let you know. And also you also have a big part of inspiring and encouraging upcoming entrepreneurs. And sometimes somebody might come into the incubator with doing something similar to yours. So it could be an opportunity for you to partner or maybe acquire that business. So it's always an ecosystem. One thing about the startup world is that everybody knows everybody. And I like what Cholwe said that if your organization is not ready for that, you know, program, don't try and be very real, be genuine. If you're not fit for that program, don't force yourself because the people that you meet, a lot of times, the mentors have been to an incubator program that I had some particular mentors of the program. When I went to another one, I met the same mentors for certain specific topics. So you can see. And then when you go and then you perform poorly or you are not honest, you are not genuine in the previous program, you already have a bad name starting, already starting from a bad foot. So yeah, so it's very, very important to keep that relationship. And even if you don't succeed, even if you have some challenges, it's also very, very important to open up, let them know a lot of times they still want to help, they still want to be part, especially sometimes. I see founders get upset because like, for example, the incubator that I went to, they selected top three startups that they funded, or they gave them some sort of some prize money, right? And we were about 20 and only three got it. So some people might be upset. I thought I had a very good company. I had all the metrics were okay. I have traction, I had customers, but why didn't I get there? And that's how they said, oh, you know, it wasn't fair in the gap said, but you know, it's not like that. Maybe they were looking at different things. Maybe the judges were looking at different things. So it's always important to keep that communication and that, you know, that relationship because relationship is all that matters in the startup world, yeah.

Tom Leonard 

Yes, let's talk about the money because that's one of the things I think that's key is because the way I understand it, some programs, like you're saying, there's prize for the top three, some programs can result in money, others don't, others provide opportunity to pitch people who do have money out there. What should someone expect from a money standpoint going into an incubator?

Reggie 

Yeah, so it depends on how the program is advertised. A lot of times, they say, or a lot of times, they will tell you that startups, you could. So they make it a possibility, because obviously, they have to check your commitment level and the energy which you are bringing into the incubator. So there are some programs which are that all the startups receive funding if you are able to successfully finish the program. A lot of times you get it in the form of a grant. There are some incubators, for example, the incubator I went to, there was funding from the World Bank, but the funding they didn't give it to us in cash. They made it, they turned into laptop and office space with a desk and a chair. And then a room, a multipurpose room for printing your business cards and all those kind of things. So that was the funding. So that was monetized and say, OK, all the startups got $10,000. But you never got the $10,000 check. So there are some like that. And it has to be clear. There are some too that they tell you that at the end of the program, we are going to have a demo day. They're going to pitch to investors. And then the incubator has a small fund that they will give to the top three performing, you know, or the top three promising ones. Then we also went to an incubator program that after that, the money was given to us in the form of Amazon web service cloud credits. So $100,000 worth of that because the incubator was for tech companies. So your company has to be, you know, being tech, you're developing a product. So that's how they do it. Sometimes you even have access to a particular software where they give you the, they pay for the license for you to use it for maybe a year or two. And that was also categorized in, you know, in money terms, in monetary terms. So sometimes you have to be really, really clear of that when you are going into: the incubator or the accelerator. Some of the government ones do provide funding for all the participants who go into different levels and all that. So that's a little bit about the money. But I think the best one is when, even if they don't give you money, sometimes they introduce, like for example, they introduce us to the Ghana Angels Network. They open up those networking opportunities where you could have the chance to interact with an angel investor and then they help you out with all the documentation. So sometimes they might provide that opportunity for you.

Tom Leonard 

Yeah, for you, for you, Cholwe, when it comes to the money side of things, Reginald was describing his experiences for you. Would you, what should people expect when it comes to money from these, from participating in these programs? Do they all offer money? Do just some offer money? What's been your experience?

Cholwe 

Within my experience, not all of them offer money. When I went through my launch accelerator program with Bongo Hive, they gave us value in form of access to resources, similar to what Reginald went through. We're given three months access to office space, free internet. We're also given access to one-on-one sessions with a business coach who could check in with us every week for accountability on where our business is that week. We also had access to financial, a financial accountant. We had legal access as well to a law firm that used to provide us with legal services once a week or three months. Then I also was a part of another accelerator program called Women in Tech by Banko Standard Chartered. And for them, it was more so on the value, but they also provided monetary, you know, finance at the end of the program, which was around $10,000, but only to the top five who come out of the program. So really the value depends.

Tom Leonard 

And I would bet that one of the great sources of that information is also talking to people that have gone through it before. 

Cholwe

And it's important to really pay attention to the criteria of what this accelerator program within the incubator is providing, as well as to what you get at the exit point of that program. Is it value worth your time? And is it also going to add more value to the growth of your business in the ecosystem? So it's important to look out for those things.

Tom Leonard 

Yes, yes. Reginald, for you, what about the difference between online programs, virtual programs, versus in-person programs? Is there difference in the value you get?

Cholwe 

Exactly, exactly. That's where networking comes back as value. So it's important for you to network more with people who have been through accelerator programs or in accelerator programs for you to get a grasp of what you're getting into and the type of value that could be added to your business should you enter an accelerator program or an incubator community.

Reggie 

That is very important. But for the in-person programs, I think the advantage is the relationship that you get and then the whole atmosphere. It's like, when you see other founders making a sale, the joy, the excitement with getting a contract and people, customers coming in and you can just walk across you know, to another founder and then exchange ideas. And those chats are very, very important on how to navigate. Sometimes you have the mentors or the, you know, their office together. I remember one of the in-person incubator programs, we could all jump on a bus, you know, visit something important places, you know, visit the community. So all the places that we're expecting business from, sometimes they can just take you there and then just, you know, arrange for a one-on-one, that hey, I want, I'm building a service for your organization. So you see all that kind of, you know, energy and commitment. And if you have, especially in the beginning, when you hire people, you want to see them work, you want to see their work attitude and all that. So the in-person one is always, is always, that atmosphere is there. You feel that you are, it's more like a bootcamp sort of thing. You feel you are part of something and the energy is there. Sometimes you have some very, very high level people who just walking. For example, the one that invested that, for example, if there was anybody, any alumni doing something big, like I remember we had one of the guys who brought Western Union to Ghana, a huge, a big, big entrepreneur, you know, worth millions and millions of dollars. He came around and he passed through the incubator to see us. And if it was a virtual program, we wouldn't have had that opportunity. So the in-person programs has that kind of feeling. You feel that you are doing something important. You feel that, you know, that support is there. And especially in the university, like in that environment, all the other students, the undergrads, you know, they could pass by and say, hey, these are the guys building the next big companies. These are the top 20 starters, and you feel like a star, you feel like a super entrepreneur. And sometimes, if you have some courses, bring them to the incubator space to come and interact with you guys and find out the things that you are doing. So it's that kind of excitement and energy and drawing strength from each other and discussing your challenges, because we all face the same challenges and all that. So that energy is good for that. But virtual programs also have their own advantages. For example, a time came where our team was in different cities, so the only way we could participate in the program was to do it virtually. Yeah.

Tom Leonard 

So Cholwe, can you talk a little bit about should people go through multiple programs or what's the value? If you go through some program like Bongo Hive there, should you then start looking at other programs as well?

Cholwe 

So it depends on what your business, the stage of your business and also what exactly you're looking for. So there's no such thing as ‘too much opportunity’. So you know, like for me, I've been through personally, I've been through two accelerator programs and each of them provided different value and different opportunities. So I believe in looking at the particular stage of your business and then seeing if there's a correlation with what the particular program is providing that would add more value to your growth as you are building that business. And then that's an opportunity that's viable for you to go into. But if it's not going to add value, it's just redundant. It's the same thing that you did with the previous program. Then maybe it's just a waste of your time and you need to just focus on building your business. But if you can see that there's actual value that you haven't had access to, like for example, what you call this, I believe Reginald mentioned something about networking. So there are some incubators that provide physical access and online access. So maybe the previous incubator you are in was just online and you didn't really have the access to actually connect more with other entrepreneurs or other people in your ecosystem.

Tom Leonard 

Now that makes sense. Some of the people we've talked to here have said that there's a difference. They've noticed a difference between programs in a lot of emerging markets versus programs, let's say in the US or Europe. They're saying that programs here are focused on making money. It's like we want to teach you skills to make money. And in a lot of other places in the world, we want to teach you skills to create jobs.

Cholwe 

So that's more value. So you see the more value coming in with the networking aspect. So maybe it's something that you should be considering. So you need to really be honest with yourself and look at the criteria of the program and see and assess if it's more value for you or it's just a waste of your time.

Tom Leonard 

Do you feel that in your particular area in your experience is the focus on a lot of accelerators a way to create jobs Cholwe?

Cholwe 

I believe so. For my experience within Zambia at Bongo Hive and the various accelerator programs that they have running that I've been through, the focus has been on making money. So we always used to talk about like, okay, revenue growth, revenue growth. Those are the two main things that we used to focus on.

Tom Leonard 

Reg, what about for you? Do you think it's money versus jobs?

Reggie 

Yeah, I think it depends who is behind the incubator. I think that normally the ones coming from the government side and the international development agencies, they, yes, is focused on jobs. And I think now the environment also, but, you know, it's focused more and more on jobs, more and more on creating that ecosystem

Cholwe 

So it was always on revenue and growth. So by growth, it means giving more value to your customers and also providing opportunities within your ecosystem. So that could be jobs, but at the same time, it was also correlating with revenue. So those are the two main things that they're teaching us to focus on when it came to building the businesses. So as much as we are focused on building more jobs and opportunities for people within our ecosystem. It's also about the growth in terms of revenue. So it's relatively both for us here.

Reggie 

For example, in my country, most of the jobs are created by the informal sector, SMEs, what they call small medium enterprises. So from statistics and from what works, empowering them to scale, resulting, creating more jobs and developing the whole economy. So those ones are basically, you know, looked at for jobs. But if you join a bigger, more of the international accelerators like, you know, YC and some of the ones that are coming up, they are, you know, you can go with a small team. They don't really look at much about the jobs you are creating, but they look at the value and how innovative your company is. And if you are a very lean company and you have great potential, you are a best fit for them. But for the other ones coming from international development agencies, sometimes they have questions like, how many women are in your company? Do you have a woman in your founding team? How many jobs have you created? How many volunteers do you have? All these things are part of the assessment to get you into it. So you can see where the focus is. How many people do you pay? So these are questions to let you know that they are looking at your potential from that angle. And sometimes you need to, in applying, you have to state how potentially, how many potential jobs your startup can create as part of the requirements. Yeah.

Tom Leonard 

You know, that makes sense out there. So it kind of starting to wrap up here. It's like any last thoughts from either one of you? We'll start with you, Reginald, on why should we even be doing a season on incubators and accelerators?

Reggie 

Yeah, because I think it's very, very important if you are not, in quotes, the serial entrepreneur. That's, you know, you have the experience in bootstrapping, you know what to do, you know how to build the companies, you built and sold companies. But if you are starting out, especially in eSports or any other business, in a dynamic industry, there's a lot of things to learn. And I think one of the fastest ways of learning is learning from other people's experience and learning from what works. So being to an incubator and accelerator is very, very important. In fact, I spoke to a founder, his strategy is incubators, accelerators and pitch competitions, because he said nobody knows him and that's how he can get publicity. Cause one of the good things about incubators and accelerators is that once you are done, sometimes they do a LinkedIn post about you. Sometimes they write your name in the newspaper. And I had that experience. And immediately, without even announcing yourself, all the people in the ecosystem knows you. 20 startups have graduated from the incubator and there's their name and these are founders. So that gives you that sort of value even before you even start. And for him, his strategy was, you know, when there's an incubator program, he goes in, he wins the prize money, and then he adds it to his, you know, to grow his company. So by me, even if that's not your motivation, it's always great to have the mentors, it's always great to have the network, it's always great to have the legal support. I went to an incubator, I didn't know a lot about data protection, how it was important for my startup, but we had a legal team in the incubator that took us through all that, all the requirements, how to register, what the law says about it. Because sometimes you are laser focused on your startup and you tend to forget some little things that can really, really affect you that can get you even into legal trouble. So, you know, all these kind of, what type of bank accounts should you have? So there are very, very important things that you need that can help you, that can accelerate you, you know, quickly and, you know, stop you from failing and getting yourself into challenges or troubles that was, that could have been easily avoided with some little knowledge or insights. Yeah.

Tom Leonard

Makes sense. So, Cholwe, for you, why should we be doing a season on incubators and accelerators?

Cholwe 

I believe it's very important. You know, instead of you as an entrepreneur, whether whatever sector you're in, going through a whole four year program or an MBA on how to run your business, you could just go through an accelerator of three months or six months and get the value in the bits and pieces that is really needed for you to actually execute in the marketplace, um, immediately at Dan. And the beauty about it is you get the constant guidance weekly on how to improve your business and where you are at particular stage of your business. So that's one of the value that I really see. And then the other value is that in majority of the cases, when it comes to these incubator programs, you find that you're actually being provided the resources and value by entrepreneurs. So you have been provided that value by people who actually know what you're going through or have been at a particular stage in your business that you are at so you won't feel that it's a lecturer who's never actually run a business in your degree, but you're actually listening and talking to you know, someone who's actually, who actually feels the pain of you running your own business from the ground up, bootstrapping, trying to learn more deals, financial planning, the legality of business, and you actually get the value that will actually help your business grow and be successful. So, um, I feel that incubator programs are really vital, um, at the early stages of a business growing.

Cholwe 

And they're also a great value for founders to actually build their mindset and build their mental resources as they are growing the business. Cause there's a shift that happens when you go through an incubator, you realize that you're part of a huge puzzle in the community. Cause you know, at the end of the day, society is built up on the foundations of entrepreneurs and the various businesses we create in different sectors of society.

Tom Leonard 

Great. That's a great way to frame it there. And yeah, and when you're looking at, you know, starting out building your business, it can seem overwhelming. But someone really smart told me once, how do you eat an elephant?

Cholwe 

And you find yourself part of this huge puzzle of solving how best we can improve each other's lives on a day-to-day basis. And you find out that you're not an island and your business is not an island. And you figure out how, how well you can work with other businesses and other founders to improve your community in that particular point. So incubators are really vital to know about.

Tom Leonard 

I have used that line that you gave me on when you were here before. That is that that's a good one there. So Cholwe, Reginald, really appreciate your time here. This is great. This is going to be this can be a good season. We already read. One's already been working his magic to find some really good people to be talking to this season. So thanks, Cholwe.

Cholwe 

Accelerator programs are really good and it's really important and it's great that you're also creating a season that's really focused on this because it's very good information for everyone to know about.

Tom Leonard 

And thanks, Reginald.

Reggie

Thank you. Yes.

Tom Leonard 

So again, this is the Gamers Change Lives podcast. We invite you to subscribe to the podcast and engage with us on social media. That's where we get the most interaction. That's where we get the most value from these conversations. So you can find us all over, especially LinkedIn. So follow us and engage with us. Gamers Change Lives podcast, play games, create jobs, change lives. Thanks.

Cholwe 

One bite at a time. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.